|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
   |
Posted - 2014.07.23 22:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
"The guiding goal with this translation is "no blueprint gets functionally worse" i.e. the materials needed for a single run should be the same or less after the transition."
I have read this sentence in a blog about Blueprint Transition for this patch.
So when ich look at my previously ME 6 now ME -9 Archon BPO.
Before the Patch, an Archon needed
ME 0 = 138 Parts
ME 1 = 133 Parts
ME 6 = 127 Parts
ME 7 = 126 Parts = perfect
Now it needs:
ME -5 = 139 Parts
ME -9 = 135 Parts
ME -10 = 129 Parts
So my allmost perfect Archon BPO was turned in into something worse than the previous ME 1 BPO.
Will you somehow refund me the 180 days of time and the 1 billion research cost to bring back my BPO to a competitionable level CCP?
The worst thing of this ME transition especially in the case of small capitals is that previously the ME 1level had the most impact on the building cost while now the last level hast a HUGE impact on the production cost. This cannot be intentional in any way.
The cause for this is obiously the rounding of the needed parts which causes trouble when the part number is close to 10. |
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 00:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
After further investigation about the BPO transition to Crius i would like to hear from a Dev, how the picture i have linked is consistant with "no blueprint gets functionally worse".
I have made a chart with the needed cap parts for building one run of Archon with the pre Crius BPOs and the post Crius BPOs.
My own was transitionen from ME 6 to ME -9. As you can see in the graph my BPO went from allmost perfect to pretty useless and now needs 8 capital parts more to build an archon than before.
Archon capital parts comparison
The comparison also shows that every single archon BPO no matter what ME level got worse. But basicly the closer you had researched it to 10, the more you got shafted because only the former ME 10+ BPOs are of any use now.
So my BPOs got functionally worse, and not only a small bit... Any comments CCP?
The reason for this mess is pretty obvious. Its the new calculation formula that rounds up in combination with low part numbers of small capital ships. |
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 12:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:After playing around much more today with the new indy window im left with the following things
1 - its too big (many ppl have said this) I am adding my voice to it
2 - the system index "bar" is 1000% daft - please show the ACTUAL value - this is driving me absolutely mad trying to do math and not knowing what the variable is. Its completely bad design imho to hide this.
~R~
I second this! Especially this bar is totally useless, i want to see numbers.
|
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 10:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
I don't know if you guys are really that clueless for the supposed level of engagement with the indy side of the game you claim to have, or if you're trolling.
I'll bite; two questions for you:
- Do you think it's only your special snowflake BPCs/BPOs that have changed, or everybody's?
- Do you think market will continue to sell at pre-Crius prices forever and ever, or maybe just maybe, there's a chance that it'll start reflecting new costs-to-manufacture, and margins will be restored? Like virtually every big ticket item that has seen manufacturing cost changes?
If you still decide to leave the game, thank you for doing so.
Have you even read my post and looked at the picture i made?
Archon BPO pre cruis vs past crius
Our problem is not that production cost changed for everyone, or that we have to adapt to new industrial rules. The problem ist that unlike promised many BPOs got nerfed depending on their ME Level pre Crius. The Archon ist just an example for this. All carrier, dread, freighter and the rorqual BPOs have this problem too.
I have invested lots of ISK into small capital BPOs and the financial loss for the shown Archon BPO (for only ONE) is half a year of gametime and hundreds of millions of ISK to make it a really good BPO again (which it was before the patch).
This is unfair because whether you got shafted or not depends on the ME level your BPO had before the patch.
For the Archon for example those with ME 0 and those with ME 10+ before the patch are fine off now while all between that got massively shafted.
And as is said, this is not only me and not only the Archon. This has hit many players with many different small capital BPOs.
Im still asking CCP for a comment..
|
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
George Gouillot wrote:
You still don't get that this will be compensated through the market? And with more people ragequitting, it will most likely be overcompensated over time. The players who buy those ships to get them exploded will pay for it.
You really dont get the point here. I dont care how the actual price for a ship, here the archon, is. I explain the real problem with an example:
An Example:
Player A with an ME 8 pre Crius Archon BPO
Player B with an ME 10 pre Crius Archon BPO
The problem is, that before the patch Player A with an ME 8 Archon BPO built the ship at eaxctly the same price as Player B with an ME 10 BPO. Still some people researched their BPO to 10 mostly because there were unable to use a calulator.
Now with Crius player B suddenly builds his Archon 5.2%!!! Cheaper than player A. That means an extra cost of 70 Million ISK every single time player A builds an archon compared to his rival.
The market will not and never compensate for this because no one gives player A 70m extra just because he got shafted by CCP.
To compensate the shafting player A will have to research his BPO to ME 10 which takes half a year and hundreds of millions ISK.
So, CCP has reduced the competitiveness of certain BPOs with certain ME levels to 0 and you dont see a problem in this? I guess you have no BPOs at all or you have all to ME 10 and are scared to loose your unfair advantage...
|
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 17:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
The question is, what sounds more logic to you?
Having differents ME levels producing the same result (pre-patch) or having a reason to reach the highest level (post-patch)?
You are only complaining because you don't want to adapt.
Becomes a point, you can't improve some aspects of the game without making changes that will, in a way or another, make some players temporary unhappy.
The key is to adapt, point.
I am complaining because CCP assured us that exactly what now has happened would not happen. When they cant change the game in a fair manner, why do they pretend to be able to do so?
Btw take a minute and watch the picture i have posted above. You will notice that the Archon BPO has at ME 0 1 and 2 exactly the same material imput AFTER the patch. So what was you point?
|
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 19:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
You say there is no possible adaptation. That's not true. Adapatation, here, is research, and it logically takes time, cost money and requires efforts. If you had your BPOs at ME8, then, you've got to deal with that by researching them to ME10. Once again, that is logical and that is what is called adaptation / research.
You just don't want to adapt, that's all and what all your complaints indicate. There is absolutely no good reason for ME10 to be given freely to you and your complaining comrades. Point.
As you said yourself, you've exploited (!) an illogical system long enough...
And what to think about, comparing EVE with WoW...
Come on...
I have to object you when it comes to which system is more logical.
The old system was perfectly logical because it immitated the principle of diminishing marginal returns which is the base of real life industrial production.
The new system reduces waste linear for a certain percentage and after -10% there is some magical barrier. Are you seriously going to tell me that the new system is more logical? Oo
Just because the new system is easier to understand, its not automatically more logical. Sometimes the reality is complicated and i like eve because it is not (well unfortunatly more and more becomes) easy. |
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 21:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
I didn't say it is more logical because it is more easy to understand. Don't make me say what I didn't. I say it is more logical because it is, globally, mathematically more logical, yes, and because there is finally a difference between (and so a (really good, cf. "the magical barrier") reason to reach) the final levels, yes.
Knowing that, how could be the old system more logical? Asking again and again...
You can discuss about little details and balancing, I don't object that, but through a global view, you can't seriously say that the new system is not better than the old one.
The new ME system is more unrealistic and causes heavy problems with the rounding of needed part numbers (look at all small capitals)
Why is it unrealistic? Well imagine in real life you are building something. Now you are trying to reduce your resource consumption (aka improve ME). The first units of time and money you invest yield the highest return in terms of reducing the needed input. While investing more time and money the input saving will reduce and at some point come to a point where you wont get any improvement for you invested time and money.
Sounds familiar? Thats exactly how it worked in Eve before Cius and thats what Science calls diminishing marginal returns.
Now after crius the returns are constant for every ME level percentage wise(in fact they are increasing because of bad rounding). The diminishing returns have been replaced by massively increasing need of time and ISK and we have a magic limit where production suddenly is perfect. Where is the improvement?
So whats left that makes post Crius ME better?
Its more simple, and thats the only argument i would agree on. However as i mentioned earlier. Eve is allready simplified to much in my opinion.
|
|
|
| |
|